@Deadfish100
So once again, the issue boils down to you aren't fighting enemies. You're fighting a clock. I really wish Mihoyoverse would move away from this formula. And I wish other gacha devs weren't taking inspiration from it.
@Truck-kun11
I feel like the point of no return will be when we have a character with a Team-Wide Action Advance on a Skill. From that point on, the concept of turns will be completely lost and the game will truly become a Quick-Time Event Simulator.
@hoangnguyen0721
Hot take:HSR is broken since 1.0. The character that broke HSR balance and put the game in the constant arm race wasnt any dps or Robin or Ruan Mei,it was Bronya(ig DDD to an extend too) For DDD,i can pass,its early game design,every game has that type of thing But Bronya,she fundamentally broke the game since day 1,why bother x1.5 your dps with a unit when bronya can just x2 their dmg and more with her skill. The fact is extra actions massively over performs any type of buffs a character can get The only reason why Ruan Mei,the only Limited Harmony without action advance is still in the meta bc 50% break efficiency is just that required for break (and also bc break does not scale with Atk/Crit/Dmg% so Mei Res Pen is just good enough) Lopsided comparison but HSR is really like modern Yugioh,you do the absolute most in a given time frame(turn or a certain AV) b4 opponent gets to do anything. But while one have ways to interact by intercepting actions outside of one own turn to keep the game in check,HSR is a PvE and so, such mechanics is really hard or even impossible to properly integrate into the game As bad as it is,i'll give Hoyo where credit is due,they've been quite good at making units that does not rely on their turn for value like Yunli,Jade(and The Herta from leaks) but rather they like their teamates taking action so action advance characters are less prominent (for Yunli and Jade Robin is still good bc she just supports FuA) The Speed/Action advance does open cool and interesting gameplay like a unit whose whole gimmick is "death by a thousand cuts" where they act a lot but not a lot of dmg per action. But because of how stupidly busted Bronya set the base for action advance,it just create an arms race for harmonies to break the turn order as much as they can
@ultradespair3606
I think that this is a problem for gacha turn based games. If you look at almost all of them, none of them are about you know preparing for the enemy, most of them are about doing the most damage possible. I think the turn-based games you want are the ones that are sold for a pre-paid package. There are numerous examples for gacha turnbased games that have hella powercreep and all about doing the most damage. Its not a problem of the game but a problem of its monetization
@writerducky2589
I wrote a whole essay, but basically it boils down to, even I, a casual gamer who doesn't think too hard about the mechanics themselves, could until now reasonably predict or anticipate what sort of units we could expect to see in the future. (I even fantasised Aventurine's base kit before he was even dripped.) But now that most all of the superficial mechanics have been addressed there are only the core ones left, which would just break the game, and the seemingly only other option being an endless spiral of new and improved stat monsters. What surprises me is that the devs didn't catch this earlier considering how far in advance they plan things, or worse, that they did, but went with it anyway. Which makes me curious to see how they'll navigate around it to come up with new stuff, or if they'll just succumb to the stat-monster pitfall trap they've created🤔 Granted, I've only ever been on the consumer end of games so there could be plenty of possibilities hidden from me😅
@automato436
I feel like instead of HP inflation they could balance this game more by having more mechanics into bosses, they have skills and ultimates just like our playable characters, that triggers based on user input.
@Rzra
Hoolay is taking revenge, HSR is starting to understand, it will be a turn-based game based on THEIR turn But seriously, it's funny how frustrated everyone is when they begin making enemies with infinite actions, Look at Citrus and their Robin-spam 10 Attacks per cycle strategy, or Hoolay taking a turn, gets into moon rage, takes another turn, laps your characters and takes another turn, then deals big damage. Just like how strategy kinda fades when you're not responding to enemies, it vanishes when you can't respond to enemies. It's also partly why I like Yunli as a character and Aventurine as a boss. Yunli's entire attack is responding to enemies, and Aventurine forces your character to respond to his attack, and effectively punishes bringing the wrong characters. Boothill kinda invalidates this but it's lore-accurate so it's funny. I'll also have to defend HSR's design a little bit, I'll have to say taking a bunch of turns is really really fun, characters not called Sunday have enough of a price to warrant their turn advances (Bronya with SP and Robin/DDD with energy and banner luck), and taking more turns means choosing more options. Anyway, interesting video, I want to say this at the end since it's not the main point, but taking too much turns doesn't invalidate a game from being turn-based, thus I don't like the title and how the core argument of the video is hidden behind this wrong empty statement.
@Notgoren
I think the problem is how the endgame works in hsr cause you need to deal x amount of dmg in x cycles soo it becomes more about how fast and hard can you hit and less about how can you make good strategies and it doesn't help that most bosses don't have a mechanic to incentivize players to make strategies around also they really messed up when they Made aa this common like sparkl has aa, bronya a standered character that you can get for free now has aa, robin has a team wide aa, sunday has aa to the unit and their summon, wind set has aa, ddd has aa,AP and PF buffs aslo has team wide aa, FOR GODS SAKE MULTIPLICATION A 3 STAR LC HAS AA (althought not that usefull its still aa on a 3 star lc and its bad mostly cause of how little stats 3 star lcs give not cause of its effect) I think making some game mode with no time limits and bosses that has some kind of mechanic that you need to exploit to clear will help the game come back to being a turn based strategy game, the banana boss is a good example if only his mechanic relyed more on the player's strategy skills and knowledge instead of being a rappa check But i fear that won't happen cause looking at aglaea in the stream and leaks it seems like she will be relying on spd even more
@HeroBrineDestroyer1
I definitely don't think HSR isn't a turn based games because after all is said and done you're still taking your own turn, the fact you can take your turn more often doesn't make it less of a turn based game at all. The entire reason people valued Bronya so highly when we were only at 1.0 is that she allowed you to take an extra turn within a turn based game which ends up being "pretty good". Having an abundance of turns doesn't make those turns not turns really. What I will say however is that yes spd is definitely an annoying stat to be able to get more of from just having more of it on relics, if it was rarer and the game was designed around that then I don't think it'd be that big of an issue and ultimately yeah having to get through things while doing it "fast enough" is much less exciting of a way to have a foundation for gameplay than trying to focus more on doing it strong enough. I'm not really against action advances in kits or speed buffs within kits and maybe some rare pieces of gear but the game as it stands will kind of expect you to have a good amount of speed which can make things feel a lot more like you can just go crazy with some things. it's not all bad because it is kinda satisfying to be able to get a crapton of Robin ult hits because you have a lot of speed, but it's certainly annoying how spd is basically one of the absolute best stats that you could have a lot of pretty much universally when other characters arent so universal with the stats they want to build.
@szryziz_
That "depth" we want now became Remembrance, an out of nowhere path that did not serve anything beside locking characters from existing lightcone from other path
@Biocdon
I'd love if they could introduce more mechanics and fun bosses more so than "team" types, I mean the "DOT, FUA, Acheron/Hyper, Counter, (HP MANIPULATORS? next?), Summons, AOE" Like we will reach a point when HSR won't even know what to release and then they'll powercreep other units of the same team comps to cashgrab from players, also take into account that HSR releases new units way faster than Genshin and has worse PowerCreep problems than Genshin also first characters Eidolons improve like 30-100% a character whilst new Character Eidolons like Feixiao improve almost 300% this specific character. So Eidolon Powercreep is also a thing. (Selee E1: 15% CR on less than 80% HP, Acheron E1: 18% CR ALL TIMES)
@kag2576
Imo I don't think the issue is that more stuff is needed on the player's end (i.e. the fortify example) but that hoyo need to design stuff that takes advantage of challenging your ability to use the mechanics in place in interesting ways. I ranted more about this in the HP inflation video, but at current most of the design of enemies, bosses and game modes are solely fixated on weakness break efficiency, because through it you delay actions and it's the only efficient way to do consistent meaningful damage with some very specific exceptions that not everyone will have access to. This combined with hoyo sticking with its own status quo (hence why game modes are all about counting down cycles and action values as they're the equivalent of timed challenges in they're more dynamic games) leads to the repetitive nature and lack of 'variety'. This of course is deliberate, designed to incentivise you to spend resources to level up skills, pull more characters and roll relic set stats. The issue of course is once you hit the ceiling of efficiency there's very little you can do to keep the game interesting, so you sit on the most efficient team and either clear everything easily or struggle and dedicate more resources to closing the gap. Fights in HSR are rarely a test of your ability to manipulate the game's mechanics, since it's pretty much always advantageous spam skills and ultimates. What I think could help are more fights like the Memory Zone Meme, it's mechanic of stealing teammates that act first is a great shake-up to the formula since you can't just spam your fastest strongest unit since you' leave your sustain defenceless. It's a miniscule thing that still shares a lot of the design flaws I mentioned but a greater expansion on such concepts could go a long way. Another example is the enemy that declares a condition and punishes you if you take it, of course past a certain point it's inconsequential damage-wise but again ideas like these are far more engaging than break enemy.
@KhionePheonix
I think saying "Speed/Action advance is the most important thing in HSR" is a bit reductive since obviously you need the damage or team build to back that up. I don't at all have a problem with mass amounts of turn manipulation - I think pressing buttons is fun - but I DO agree that most endgame content being a race against the clock is super lame, and directly attributes to most of the game’s issues. Swarm universe had an interesting balance with planar disarray, making enemies lethally threatening when taking too many map turns and forcing players to decide risk vs reward for the ultimate battle. Swarm uni had no timers to it and the only thing you had to worry about was surviving, dealing damage, and the extremely generous berserk timer (which is mostly there to dissuade full sustain setups). Your only real time limit was the damage ups from the boss spawning adds, a somewhat controllable outcome – the content was mostly about finding the right build while not letting enemies get stronger than you could handle. Even the boss itself reflects this - in it's third phase, the boss doubles it's effective damage output, and challenges you to either survive or deal enough burst/turn delay to end it. It's not an arbitrary timer, but the boss itself changing the state of the game. Gold and gears immediately ruined this with threshold protocol massively advancing the berserk timer, effectively adding a new clock to the game which only served to make action/speed doubly critical. Div universe also doubled down on this, having threshold not only advance berserk but also massively increase it’s rate of growth so that it all but guaranteed an instant loss on trigger. Unknowable domain then proceeded to TRIPLE DOWN on this by introducing cycles and reducing them with Conundrum, activating berserk the second you ran out. It also doesn’t help that taking 9999 turns in a row is far and away the best strategy alongside the scepter mechanics, since they are 90% of your damage and have a plethora of speed up/action advance effects among them. And of course, the game prints more speedy units and effects to keep up...making the problem more apparent. Overall, I just feel like the game has introduced too many clocks and not enough interesting challenges in difficulty to handle, which is a real shame. I’m cool with them keeping the forgotten hall/apocalyptic shadow/pure fiction timers, but I’d really like them to keep it out of our other endgame content. Let us play the game the way we want to, dammit. Tl;Dr; speed isn't the problem, the clocks we race against are.
@m.a.r.i.a.9861
Nah, HSR is a powercreep-based game where the game expect you to deal 69 trillion damages to 420 trillion HP monsters and defeat them within 0 turn.
@That_Daily_noko
1:51 to be fair, Pokémon has tailwind which doubles your speed and trick room which makes speed work the opposite way
@odalartse
turn manipulation is literally the most interesting part in turn based combat with arguments like that you can say that persona or smt aren't jrpg because in those games the best tactic in most fights is make enemies have as less turns as possible
@mockquia7479
i think hsr has enough endgame modes maybe add 1 more like boss rush/do X damage X points/cycles or even a sandbox mode to test character without having to deal hp inflation. i want to see more casual games tea pot from genshin, zzz quality time/character message system ( actually get to use chat skins from events). problem with endgame modes currently they like adding time limit so you're kinda force into using AV and speed break point to get the max damage output in X cycles than some of type team strategy.
@sakaom
actual depth will never be added into hsr. players, especially gacha players, rate game in how much they can do the most difficult challenge available and how brainless it is to beat it. bosses and enemies that rely on the player knowing their patterns and mechanics are typically hated, same thing for units that aren't "press buttons in this order to anihilate your enemies!!"
@hellonyancat666
This feels like the evolution of Yugioh and their Special Summons
@dontthrow6064